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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 14:12:50 GMT -5
I will take a careful look at the immediate area around that particular tree, however I noticed nothing that would have indicated 'cuts' and such.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2008 12:46:48 GMT -5
spent a bit of time in the Lindeman lake area yesterday with another researcher. The intent was to check out the cedar tree I'd noticed earlier this summer. Imges - canadian.vox.com/Along the hike up to the lake I thinking about taking a look at the other cedar trees in the area, something I'd failed to think of an do the first time out there. Ok, so while cedar trees are not as abundant as the other species (which sadly i can't name ) we did in fact see more of them and all of them had been 'worked' over by something. When I use the term stripped in relation to cedar trees, I do not mean that the bark has been stripped down to bare wood. I am describing an activity of using parts of these trees (bark material in this case) for 'whatever' purposes. One tree along the trail for example showed these marks from ground level to 30 feet up the trunk. The 'worked' bark on the tree looks almost fuzzy with fine whispy bits of bark (Not sure if vigorous rubbing [hide on tree for instance] would have the same effect and not being that hairy, I didn't try ). We did find some six foot longish and 1/2-1" wide cedar strips on the forest floor although in all fairness and the trees proximity to a busy trail ... someone (person) could have done that to pass the time or whatever. I also do not know what other types of woodland critters hang out there; other than the one chipmunk we saw, hehe. I still wanted to find the first tree, but strayed off the line in the densely littered forest floor (crawling under and stumbling over deadwood) as we made our way upwards towards the rocks above. Scrap that first tree (other trees offer similar sign); we didn't find it for all the other trees While that first tree showed stripping started three or so feet off the ground, we found some smaller trees where the bark was peeled off right at ground level, and the size of these strips were larger than anything a tree dwelling rodent could realistically manage. We also noted that the exposed cedar trunk was patterned with 3-4" horizontal lines that could be misinterpreted as 'tool marks'. These marks are all horizontal and I believe these marks to be part of the 'wood grain'. Some trees near the camp sites show both tool marks and these natural marks for comparison. We had an opportunity for some fun: 'Vilnoori' suggested looking for 'stone tools' and/or other such evidence of low tech mechanics. Well ... we found something like that! Well, if you're into stretching things that is, hehe. Right beside one of these cedar trees lay a 1.5' long triangular piece of granite with a tapered pointed end and an axe like leading edge. It could have looked the part of some primitive implement, however not. A blurry image (I didn't photograph it) could have led to some interesting speculation I'm not sure what I really think about 'structures' found out there. While it's construction or lack thereof or the natural pick-up-stick action of trees falling over this way and that was interesting, any conclusive thoughts are inconclusive. Some of the tree trunks (6-8" diameter) appears to be twisted at the 'base' to facilitate laying them onto/into the 'structure'. General picture: Large tree fell uphill exposing root base. Onto this then various trees are 'arranged' to form a rudimentary shelter of sorts although the interior offered little or no comfort (larger sized rocks and uneven area to get comfortable on IMHO). Also considered the proximity to camp area; 300 or so meters uphill in dense broken wood and rock; possibly campers building a fort. All in all it was interesting to see and check out, even if I don't know what to make of it. In roughly the same area I crawled into an opening between large rocks and discovered some bedding areas for much smaller forest critters; perhaps lynx/bobcat style, too small for our hairy guy but better shelter than that log thing. So ... now I want to know what uses cedar bark like that? What causes the cedar trees to look like that? And here's one for you while you're out there. Please keep and eye on any cedar trees you see out there and please look to see if they've been stripped/scratched/peeled or whatever. I curious to see if this happens in other areas also. We saw at least five trees like that.
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vilnoori
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Post by vilnoori on Oct 12, 2008 23:38:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the description, canadian. Hope you hade a great day of it. One question that I have regarding the possible "hand ax" rock, was it obviously from adjacent granite outcrops, or did it seem like it had been carried there from another location? Would it have been possible for it to just be there by chance, or was it obviously moved from somewhere else?
edit to add
I just had a look at the pics and I did see some stone flakes that could be used to shave bark off a tree. But why would someone or something deliberately harvesting the bark leave so much lying around the base of the tree? Those strips could definitely have been used.
It is possible that they are the result of stag rubs, since the diameter of the tree is about right for that. It depends on how much cedar bark was lying around. If most of it was taken away then you know there is more too it than that.
Also I'm impressed at the teepee like structure you found. I think it has been deliberately built as a shelter, perhaps in the winter months as a windbreak. Whether by people or something else is the question! Presumably tree boughs would be lain across the bigger saplings for a roof. I don't think they are there by chance, there seems to be too much structural integrity. That cross bar at the top, and all the saplings pointing in the same way like that. Good one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2008 1:17:52 GMT -5
IMHO you're reading too much into the 'stone tool' possibilities as there is definitive evidence in the areas higher up of recent rock fall.
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Post by Gerry on Oct 13, 2008 11:20:45 GMT -5
I have been studying cedar harvesting since this question first came up on the forum and the general method is to cut out a piece of bark of several feet long and several inches wide..and then pull the whole thing off like a banana peel, leaving the tree exposed to the skin. Not losely shaven as in these pictures. So I think human involvement can be ruled [ for basket weaving material ] out unless someone can prove otherwise. The slash pile is interesting just for the fact that it is in a wooded area..so it was not put there for a slash and burn! All interesting as an oddity..until it is explained by someone versed in what this is all about
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2008 14:01:10 GMT -5
^I'm still struggling to come up with a term that isn't as defined as 'harvesting' or 'modification' as what I've noted does not match any (I use 'any' rather loosely) aboriginal cedar harvesting techniques I'm aware of (and I'm no expert).
No cuts or larger sections of bark removed.
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vilnoori
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Post by vilnoori on Oct 14, 2008 0:35:23 GMT -5
Can stag antler rubbing be ruled out?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 0:55:48 GMT -5
The area in general showed no sign of deer at all, no droppings but lots of different mushrooms. As some of the marks reach 24-30' high on the tree trunk, I'm not sure. I am now curious however to find out the condition of other cedars in other areas. I added another image to my blog (http://canadian.vox.com/)to show the kind of texture 'after' the stripping.
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beegee
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Post by beegee on Oct 20, 2008 14:14:52 GMT -5
Watched a show Saturday on TV, about the Haida people harvesting bark from Cedar trees, they cut a horizontal line at the lower extremity of the trunk, then take a knife and just score the width of the strip they want up for a couple of inches, and then they proceed to pull the strip out and upwards whilst walking backwards. the strips would go as high as twenty to thirty feet up the trunk before pulling completely off.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2008 14:53:28 GMT -5
^I know about that, however I didn't see or find any sign of such activity nor signs of actual 'scoring'. I'd also add to that the terrain I found the initial tree in wouldn't IMHO be very practical in terms of walking into and then carrying the harvested stuff back ... Either way I don't know edit= I also am aware that a started 'strip' would tear a long way up the tree if the material is strong enough.
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Post by bigfoothunter on Oct 20, 2008 17:25:31 GMT -5
Can stag antler rubbing be ruled out? Everything should be considered and threads started for them ... no supposition is too small. In the case of bark stripping high up on the trunk of the tree, then consider what several bucks could do if they worked together and stood on each others shoulders ... its simply mind boggling! ;D
Bigfoothunter
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2008 13:59:05 GMT -5
I've now noticed this 'usage' in a few areas. Someone has suggested it might be cougars, however, again no distinct claw/scratch marks that are indicative of a cats claw shedding/sharpening activities IMHO.
I'd be curious to hear from others in other areas about this.
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vilnoori
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Post by vilnoori on Nov 3, 2008 13:37:02 GMT -5
Bigfoothunter, you are not funny and I find your remark offensive. I can see why you have had personality issues with another person formerly of this forum. Or maybe you just don't like women, eh? Your comments are unworthy of anyone posting on a forum, never mind a moderator.
I'm simply trying to think of all the possibilities. If you want to eliminate some of these possibilities I've suggested, please do so in a civil and friendly manner, if you are capable of common courtesy, that is.
Back on topic, well, it could actually be aboriginal harvesting of cedar.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 14:56:28 GMT -5
^ aboriginal harvesting can be ruled out IMHO with the trees I've looked at. If you saw the areas and the trees you'd probably agree.
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Post by Gerry on Nov 3, 2008 16:45:04 GMT -5
Did you note any broken branches? If they were chewed, then porcupine could be the culprit as they are known to shred bark high on trees!
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