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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 19:07:31 GMT -5
Hey all, I have a question regarding trees and our hairy fella. I'm not talking about bent/broken/twisted trees but cedar trees and it's bark in particular. I'll try to explain. I was hiking around Lindeman lake area and got well off the beaten path so to speak; well enough not to see it for the trees etc. I was scanning the area, moving upwards through the trees towards the bar rock when I spotted a fairly large cedar tree with what appeared at the distance of 30 feet, bear scratch markings. I had to look again and climbed up to the tree because yes it had indeed been 'used' by something for it's bark, but upon closer inspection looked to not have been torn/scratched by diagonally marking bear claws but appeared to have been stripped vertically or scratched from the tree. I looked up the trunk and saw that this peculiar marking extended at least 10 feet up. I tried to strip some bark off and found that it came off easily. The grooves where once cedar bark once grew almost looked like channels that thick fingernails could make in a scratching downward motion IMHO. I don't know. I did photograph the cedar tree but don't know how to add a detail here I saw no diagonal marks anywhere on the trunk and the 'stripped' area was the only damage I noted on the trunk. It looked like obvious damage/manipulation of the bark area in question. Does anyone have any suggestion and/or instances of the big hairy fellas using cedar bark like that? Thanks for any insights. myron
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 7:42:05 GMT -5
Firstly, I would like to welcome you to the WCSR forum, Canadian.
To try and answer your question on sasquatch possibly using cedar bark, I have seen it mentioned only once in the past by Albert Ostman.
Here's a quote from Ostman's account of being abducted by a sasquatch:
Ken
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 12:04:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome Ken and thanks for the reply. I'm delighted to find this forum and read more about this fascinating obsession I've not come across any other mention of cedar use but the 'narrow strips' mentioned by Ostman in regards to making rudimentary blankets would possibly demonstrate some skills. Just something else I'm keeping an eye out for now. There's just so much we don't know, (yet) hehe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 12:04:22 GMT -5
Gerry, thx for clearing up the posting images thing. Ok, re the cedar bark, I posted the images to my blog with brief descriptions. canadian.vox.com/click on images for larger view.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 20:48:08 GMT -5
Canadian: Good photos of the scratched Red Cedar tree. I have seen some Red Cedar trees scratched extremely high by big black bears...sometimes as high as 8 or 9 feet. Although the bear's claw marks are generally deep and easy to see what they were made by.
It might be interesting to note that Red Cedar shavings, bark and oil are all natural flea repellents. A hairy critter like the sasquatch would probably be bothered by fleas and the cedar might just help keep the pesky bugs away from its body.
On the edge of steep hill I once found a possible sasquatch bed made of cedar boughs on private property in the Deroche area. Strange thing was, the owner of the property and I couldn't find any Red Cedar trees in the general vicinity of the possible bed. Whatever made the possible bed had to have packed those cedar boughs in from some distance away.
I also found a possible sasquatch track in the fresh dirt of an ant hill located quite close to the possible bed. I have shown the 8mm video of the possible track to Thomas and also provided him with a copy of the tape.
Ken
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vilnoori
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Post by vilnoori on Aug 11, 2008 20:52:56 GMT -5
OK before we jump to the Sasquatch explanation, consider other things that strip bark off trees:
1. Porcupines. But they generally avoid cedar as it is quite toxic and also there isn't a branch for them to sit on to chew. No chew marks.
2. Elk or Stag rubs. They mark territory that way.
3. Cougar scratching post? I favour this one, since I've seen loads of cougar tracks in that area.
4. Bear rub? Seems a bit high for it.
5. Natives returning to ancient ways and trying to harvest cedar bark for basketry etc? No cut marks.
6. Sasquatch harvesting cedar bark? The "fingernail scratch marks" at the base are suggestive, but would they leave it so splintery?
Personally I think number 3.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 22:07:40 GMT -5
No scratch/claw marks (feline) of any kind were noted. I'm familiar with 'scratching post' look.
Porcupine wouldn't have been able to reach even to the base of the scratch marks.
Re. 'splintery' - normal 'shredding' remnants of bark pulled away in strips, leaving long fine trailing 'splintery' look, very soft actually.
Note - I've been thinking about this and I think that 'looking for more of these cedar trees in that area would lead to some interesting thinking; if more than the one stripped specimen were located in the general vicinity... I wish I'd thought like that while I was there, hehe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 22:15:10 GMT -5
From my hunting experience elk will generally rub a small spruce, fir or sapling prior to or during the rut. Have never seen a Red Cedar rubbed by an elk. The elk will sometimes rub aspen bark for food. I think 10 feet up a tree might be stretching it even for a big cat. Canadian did say: "I looked up the trunk and saw that this peculiar marking extended at least 10 feet up." Like house cats scratching furniture, cougars mark their territory boundaries by leaving claw marks on trees, stumps, and occasionally fence posts. Claw marks left by an adult cougar will be 4 to 8 feet above the ground and consist of long, deep, parallel scratches running almost vertically down the trunk. These gashes rarely take off much bark; tree-clawing that removes much bark is probably the work of a bear. Source: wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/living/cougars.htmKen
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2008 0:50:33 GMT -5
Re. Cougar - If a cougar scratched a tree you'd probably find the occasional claw shell stuck in the bark. I'm thinking about going back there (Lindeman lake) this weekend, Sat. Aug.16 to take another look around that area, get some better detail and not camp this time I would welcome some company if anyone is interested in a short but memorable hike. Doing that as early as reasonable might lead to some time out at Chillwack lake afterwards as it's 'right' there. But until I get a lifted Smart car I'm not driving around the lake - that said I've been half around in the smart but traveling without a spare and just a phone number for a tow sucks on gravel; oh yeah and I've got no phone with me either. PM me if you're up for it.
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Post by Gerry on Oct 6, 2008 14:12:05 GMT -5
You know...after seeing your pictures there is nothing there to remind me of claws. But rather something flat like horns. But Ken makes some very interesting points..(no pun intended! ) about animal choices of trees. As does vilnoori with her options! It reminds me if some flat tool used for scraping wood. 'Fingernails? Who knows. Human made with a tool..maybe..but why go to such an out of the way place to collect such a sample of bark? This forum could use an animal behavior expert, for creatures in the Northwest.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2008 15:17:39 GMT -5
Those are some awesome photos! Thanks for posting your site I copied this info off of wikipedia and thought it interesting in a "monkey see, monkey do" kinda way - no pun intended. Indigineous people have been using this method, apparently in harvesting cedar - without any evidence of any tools, in the photos you have, it seems interesting to see a similar form of "harvesting" cedar. I think i'd rule bears out as well - there doesn't appear to be any "claw marks", the bear marks ive seen were really quite obvious and didn't involve any kind of stripping or harvesting of cedar. I'm thinking that there was no evidence of any strips of bark left near the base of the tree either which helps somewhat in trying to explain or analyze this phenomenon. "Bark The bark is easily removed from live trees in long strips, and is harvested for use in making mats, rope and cordage, basketry, rain hats, clothing, and other soft goods. The harvesting of bark must be done with care because if the tree is completely stripped it will die. To prevent this, the harvester only harvests from trees which have not been stripped before, and usually less than a half round of the bark is removed. After harvesting the tree is not used for bark again, although it may later be felled for wood. Stripping bark is usually started with a series of cuts at the base of the tree above any buttresses, and the bark is peeled upwards. To remove bark high up, a pair of platforms strung on rope around the tree are used, and the harvester climbs by alternating between them for support. Since redcedars lose their lower branches as all tall trees do in the rainforest, the harvester may climb 10 m or more into the tree by this method. The harvested bark is folded and carried in backpacks. It can be stored for quite some time as mold does not grow on it, and is moistened before unfolding and working. It is then split lengthwise into the required width and woven or twisted into shape. Bark harvesting was mostly done by women, despite the danger of climbing 10 m in the air, because they were the primary makers of bark goods. Today bark rope making is a lost art in many communities, although it is still practiced for decoration or art in a few places. Other uses of bark are still common for artistic or practical purposes." What i find most interesting about this particular topic in relation to anything non-human being responsible for the stripping of bark is quite simply, how would any other creature, besides the human, if you recall - the one with the big..achem..brain - know to limit the amount of bark stripped? For example, if the bark was stripped around the entire or even majority of the circumference, the tree would die because its inability to move precious nutrition/water up through the "viens" found around that circumference
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2008 15:31:18 GMT -5
oh...also, just an FYI squirrels and other forest creatures will use cedar bark for nests, etc. apparently cedar bark kinda rocks in the building materials world of the forest
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Post by Gerry on Oct 6, 2008 15:50:15 GMT -5
Excellent snooping gal!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 13:16:50 GMT -5
thx for your input and thoughts on this. Actually I'm planning to go back to Lindeman lake this weekend to check on that tree again and look around some more. Weather should be ok too. If anyone wants to join me, PM me.
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vilnoori
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Post by vilnoori on Oct 8, 2008 13:46:21 GMT -5
When you go, look around the tree for stone hand axes or a stone flake that could be used to make the initial cuts or scrapes to free the bark at the bottom of the strip. A firm pull upward and wallah!
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